I am Shashank (Age: 30), an Indian working in US as a Project Manager (software). I have been spending some of my time on subjects like Political Philosophy, Jurisprudence and Economics (authors like – Adam Smith, J S Mill, J Locke, Michael J Sandel, J B Taylor, etc). And, I also consult with my brother, a Software Engineer in US, pursuing Masters in Economics, and quite interested in Politics.
I am almost done with your book (Breaking free of Nehru) and have liked it so far. So, obviously I recommended your book to some of my friends *** in India, however, the response I got from them surprised me a bit. i.e. Most of them never responded and one of them responded quite offensively, as if Karl Marx was still alive in his body.
I have always wanted to change the surroundings I was in and hated the Indian political & social systems. 5 Yrs back when I was in India, I had a team of 30 people (software engineers, in New Delhi) and as a Project Manager I decided to exploit that opportunity to try out some experiments. I tried creating an ideal environment based on ideas like freedom, responsibility, accountability, sense of purpose, quality of work, growth, competition and constant improvement; what was the result? People did change gradually (with some resistance), but they sprung back to their previous mode as soon as I was out of that environment. All I ever expect from them was propagation of these simple ideas and acceptance of the fact that they work, and we do not need viruses like corruption, boot-licking, power exploitation, etc. in our professional/social environments for us to flourish.
Another observation I’d like to share with you –
I noticed that every person in my locality was interested in something and wanted to reap short term benefits out of the available political parties. They never cared about the policies, nor did they have intellect or knowledge to do so. In one of the elections in New Delhi, a clean intellectual took part in the elections and lost miserably. Reasons were simple – the Builders (construction) wanted to support corrupt party/leaders to make more money, Muslims wanted to support some party that promised them reservations, Janitors wanted a special party card they could use to feel important and to evade small traffic charges. And so on… Point is, everyone in the locality had either or all of these – “The Corruption Gene”, “Myopia” and “Mental Midgettary”.
Besides my experiments, all that I have gathered so far (looking at history and present conditions) also confirms the fact that general public doesn’t deserve it! They do not like to think or question (mental lethargy) and they can’t lead or fight even for themselves. Then, the question is why should I waste my time on them – being their leader or caring for them? Unless of course, it satisfies my own selfish objectives (which is fine).
I am 100% sure you must have faced and thought about what I am trying to say here. I just want to know your thoughts on the same.
Regards
Shashank
PS:
1) My brother liked you other book “Becoming rich and powerful”.
2) I tried to keep this short and simple.
3) *** My Indian friends have been to US and other countries. They have lived most of their lives in New Delhi and they have Masters or Engineering degrees. They are much more aware and interested than regular Delhites.
Thanks for your comment. First of all, it is good to know that you are finding my book at least somewhat sensible.
Re: the poor response you’ve received about the book from your friends, please note that the idea of liberty is not innate. It has to be discovered and chewed over in one’s mind before one is able to understand and then advocate it. India has not had very few major leaders who have advocated liberty. Most academics in India are socialists (as is the case across the world). Therefore the ideas of freedom are not found in India and will take time (potentially decades) to spread.
On the other hand there is great power in coordinated action. Change cn be expedited through coordinated action. That is why I do not advocate anyone contesting elections on their own (e.g. the Delhi person you mentioned). There must be a major political party formed and that party must prepare for elections over many years before its members contest elections. The goal has to win a parliamentary majority. Less than that is a waste of time and effort.
That is why we now have the Freedom Team of India (a concept that I proposed in my draft manuscript for BFN in mid-2006 and later started as an email group in Dec 2007).
The fact is that India is not going away anywhere. Therefore, its mismanagement will adversely affect the world as well. Improving India helps everyone, including Indians settled outside India.
No matter where you are it is in your interest to improve India’s governance. You can now do that by supporting the Freedom Team. Help build it and help it find leaders (http://freedomteam.in/).
Dear Sanjeev Thanks for your initiatives on this sensitive issue. I am a disabled by both leg but quite enthusiastic of doing something for the society in general and disabled brethren in particular. I can arrange a meeting in kolkata during your days at Guwahati and if you agree give me your date so that a group of like minded professionals can attend your programme. I am an MBA in HRM & FIN. under DLP and awaiting your reply at an early date. UMA SHANKAR VERMA Mob. 9051849550 Verma_lg@rediff.com.
Shri Sabhlokji,
I want to speak with you on some related issues which you raised on the issue of corruption in politics.
I would be very grateful to you, if you could give me your contact number and address.
Waiting for a reply.
Thanks and regards,
Dinesh Kumar
Dear Sanjeev,
I started reading your father’s book and was completely blown away! It places your own views and activism in a very positive light.
However, your enthusiasm for personality cultic nutjobs like Ayn Rand, who has a paranoid theory of society as a conspiracy to deny the greatness of herself, does your cause a great a dis-service. The subtle type of economics upon which Indian liberalism- as opposed to Manichaean mourners for Hapsburg Mitteleurope, which is what the Austrians were- is and must be founded on fundamental and fractal notions of symmetry, i.e. reciprocity, as underrlying all action and interaction as opposed to the notion of ‘education as a cordon sanitaire’ or Libertarianism as a Laxman rekha, guarding against the ressentiment, not to say down right devilment-as-development, of the ignorant masses.
Your father stresses Lord Krishna’s role in Gita as ‘garva prahari’ (crusher of pride). However, in the symmetrical ‘dual’ of the Gita where Lord K is urging Arjuna NOT TO KILL HIS ELDER BROTHER (i.e. exact opposite of the Gita situation where Karna (the true eldest) wants Arjuna to fight) we see that to utter one’s own condign praise, or objectively state one’s merits- IS TO KILL YOURSELF. Thus Krishna’s Visvarupa is his own harrowing- His sacrifice of Himself. Unfortunately, people like Amartya Sen (whom you don’t list among great Indian economists) totally fail to read the Gita as it was meant to be read- i.e. they read it as ‘intellectuals’ when it is meant to be read by ordinary blokes who know they aint anything special. One may well ask- did Lord Krishna sacrifice himself in vain? You may notice the uncritical way in which Indglish ‘intellectuals’ have accepted Sen’s utterly specious nyaya/niti distinction (vide http://socioproctology.blogspot.com/2010/07/nyaya-niti-and-amartya-sen.html) and his utterly ludicrous equation of Lord K with deontology and Arjuna with consequentialism!
My fear is your latest book- which I have just begun to read- accepts an utterly foolish and outdated approach to Ethical theories and, also, perhaps from a desire not to come across as a Hindus-for-Hitler nutjob, downplays what Indian wisdom actually has to say (or could be construed to say without a prior historicist hermeneutic commitment) and thus comes off as shallow and like Gurcharan Das (nice man but not a great thinker) on speed.
I am greatly impressed by you. I think, like your father, you have great literary gifts. I suspect your knowledge of Hindi writing on socio-soteriology might be defecient. A great pity, because any Indian theory can be much more easily assimilated in Hindi than in English- irrespective of the provenance of the writer.
No comments yet, except that my knowledge of Indian classics is close to zero. I have been a far keener student of public administration and science (and later economics) than history or culture. Whatever little I’ve read (and liked) I have assimilated in simplistic terms (e.g. concepts like karma, karmayoga, advaita): some of these I’ve actually discussed in DOF, and shown how my conception of accountability is compatible with Indian tradition and allows the prospects of self-realisation, not merely happiness (note though that my views did not arise from the Indian tradition: they are more empirical, but the truth is always one, so it doesn’t matter who arrives at it in which way).
Would you read through DOF when you get spare time (it is a very bumpy read at the moment and I’m trying to revise when time permits: will take at least one year to fix it, given shortage of time)? I’m keen to leverage Indian thought in that book and would like to see where I can cite useful Indian references.
Dear sir,
Good morning,I D.Dantheshwar Rao, persuing my post graduation(MCA). i have seen your book(Breaking free of Nehru)
and i was surprised,because from my schooling onwards i aimed to get success in
IAS and through that i want to help the poor,tribal people,and bring the change in unbalanced polity all over India & i wanna
see our country as developed,corruption less, well political,the best country among
the world countries in very few years(in 1-2 decades), but only the problem is i want
support and path to achieve my aim, i have not seen you in your book as a govt.official,
but i seen you as my friend,who will pour the water on the plant which is called as "my
aim to see mine as proud country",sir if possible please give me your appointment to
meet you and speak some things regarding this,
Thanking you sir,……………………..
…..
yours
sincerely
Respected sir,
I am social worker from ludhiana ( punjab ) and I work to promote rationalist and scientific thinking among people. I really appreciate your work for society. I want to read your books in hindi because I feel comfortable while reading hindi. Please email me your writings or book in hindi so I can increase my knowledge about liberalism.
Nischal Hansi
mobile no. 8437568036
If after that you have more time, you may consider reading the extensive material linked through this page, perhaps around 10,000 pages worth of writings in all, including much on the India Policy Institute website and some available only if you join certain forums like the Freedom Team.
Hello Sanjeev,
I am Shashank (Age: 30), an Indian working in US as a Project Manager (software). I have been spending some of my time on subjects like Political Philosophy, Jurisprudence and Economics (authors like – Adam Smith, J S Mill, J Locke, Michael J Sandel, J B Taylor, etc). And, I also consult with my brother, a Software Engineer in US, pursuing Masters in Economics, and quite interested in Politics.
I am almost done with your book (Breaking free of Nehru) and have liked it so far. So, obviously I recommended your book to some of my friends *** in India, however, the response I got from them surprised me a bit. i.e. Most of them never responded and one of them responded quite offensively, as if Karl Marx was still alive in his body.
I have always wanted to change the surroundings I was in and hated the Indian political & social systems. 5 Yrs back when I was in India, I had a team of 30 people (software engineers, in New Delhi) and as a Project Manager I decided to exploit that opportunity to try out some experiments. I tried creating an ideal environment based on ideas like freedom, responsibility, accountability, sense of purpose, quality of work, growth, competition and constant improvement; what was the result? People did change gradually (with some resistance), but they sprung back to their previous mode as soon as I was out of that environment. All I ever expect from them was propagation of these simple ideas and acceptance of the fact that they work, and we do not need viruses like corruption, boot-licking, power exploitation, etc. in our professional/social environments for us to flourish.
Another observation I’d like to share with you –
I noticed that every person in my locality was interested in something and wanted to reap short term benefits out of the available political parties. They never cared about the policies, nor did they have intellect or knowledge to do so. In one of the elections in New Delhi, a clean intellectual took part in the elections and lost miserably. Reasons were simple – the Builders (construction) wanted to support corrupt party/leaders to make more money, Muslims wanted to support some party that promised them reservations, Janitors wanted a special party card they could use to feel important and to evade small traffic charges. And so on… Point is, everyone in the locality had either or all of these – “The Corruption Gene”, “Myopia” and “Mental Midgettary”.
Besides my experiments, all that I have gathered so far (looking at history and present conditions) also confirms the fact that general public doesn’t deserve it! They do not like to think or question (mental lethargy) and they can’t lead or fight even for themselves. Then, the question is why should I waste my time on them – being their leader or caring for them? Unless of course, it satisfies my own selfish objectives (which is fine).
I am 100% sure you must have faced and thought about what I am trying to say here. I just want to know your thoughts on the same.
Regards
Shashank
PS:
1) My brother liked you other book “Becoming rich and powerful”.
2) I tried to keep this short and simple.
3) *** My Indian friends have been to US and other countries. They have lived most of their lives in New Delhi and they have Masters or Engineering degrees. They are much more aware and interested than regular Delhites.
1Dear Shashank
Thanks for your comment. First of all, it is good to know that you are finding my book at least somewhat sensible.
Re: the poor response you’ve received about the book from your friends, please note that the idea of liberty is not innate. It has to be discovered and chewed over in one’s mind before one is able to understand and then advocate it. India has not had very few major leaders who have advocated liberty. Most academics in India are socialists (as is the case across the world). Therefore the ideas of freedom are not found in India and will take time (potentially decades) to spread.
On the other hand there is great power in coordinated action. Change cn be expedited through coordinated action. That is why I do not advocate anyone contesting elections on their own (e.g. the Delhi person you mentioned). There must be a major political party formed and that party must prepare for elections over many years before its members contest elections. The goal has to win a parliamentary majority. Less than that is a waste of time and effort.
That is why we now have the Freedom Team of India (a concept that I proposed in my draft manuscript for BFN in mid-2006 and later started as an email group in Dec 2007).
The fact is that India is not going away anywhere. Therefore, its mismanagement will adversely affect the world as well. Improving India helps everyone, including Indians settled outside India.
No matter where you are it is in your interest to improve India’s governance. You can now do that by supporting the Freedom Team. Help build it and help it find leaders (http://freedomteam.in/).
Regards
2Sanjeev
Dear Sanjeev Thanks for your initiatives on this sensitive issue. I am a disabled by both leg but quite enthusiastic of doing something for the society in general and disabled brethren in particular. I can arrange a meeting in kolkata during your days at Guwahati and if you agree give me your date so that a group of like minded professionals can attend your programme. I am an MBA in HRM & FIN. under DLP and awaiting your reply at an early date. UMA SHANKAR VERMA Mob. 9051849550 Verma_lg@rediff.com.
3Shri Sabhlokji,
4I want to speak with you on some related issues which you raised on the issue of corruption in politics.
I would be very grateful to you, if you could give me your contact number and address.
Waiting for a reply.
Thanks and regards,
Dinesh Kumar
Dear Sanjeev,
5I started reading your father’s book and was completely blown away! It places your own views and activism in a very positive light.
However, your enthusiasm for personality cultic nutjobs like Ayn Rand, who has a paranoid theory of society as a conspiracy to deny the greatness of herself, does your cause a great a dis-service. The subtle type of economics upon which Indian liberalism- as opposed to Manichaean mourners for Hapsburg Mitteleurope, which is what the Austrians were- is and must be founded on fundamental and fractal notions of symmetry, i.e. reciprocity, as underrlying all action and interaction as opposed to the notion of ‘education as a cordon sanitaire’ or Libertarianism as a Laxman rekha, guarding against the ressentiment, not to say down right devilment-as-development, of the ignorant masses.
Your father stresses Lord Krishna’s role in Gita as ‘garva prahari’ (crusher of pride). However, in the symmetrical ‘dual’ of the Gita where Lord K is urging Arjuna NOT TO KILL HIS ELDER BROTHER (i.e. exact opposite of the Gita situation where Karna (the true eldest) wants Arjuna to fight) we see that to utter one’s own condign praise, or objectively state one’s merits- IS TO KILL YOURSELF. Thus Krishna’s Visvarupa is his own harrowing- His sacrifice of Himself. Unfortunately, people like Amartya Sen (whom you don’t list among great Indian economists) totally fail to read the Gita as it was meant to be read- i.e. they read it as ‘intellectuals’ when it is meant to be read by ordinary blokes who know they aint anything special. One may well ask- did Lord Krishna sacrifice himself in vain? You may notice the uncritical way in which Indglish ‘intellectuals’ have accepted Sen’s utterly specious nyaya/niti distinction (vide http://socioproctology.blogspot.com/2010/07/nyaya-niti-and-amartya-sen.html) and his utterly ludicrous equation of Lord K with deontology and Arjuna with consequentialism!
My fear is your latest book- which I have just begun to read- accepts an utterly foolish and outdated approach to Ethical theories and, also, perhaps from a desire not to come across as a Hindus-for-Hitler nutjob, downplays what Indian wisdom actually has to say (or could be construed to say without a prior historicist hermeneutic commitment) and thus comes off as shallow and like Gurcharan Das (nice man but not a great thinker) on speed.
I am greatly impressed by you. I think, like your father, you have great literary gifts. I suspect your knowledge of Hindi writing on socio-soteriology might be defecient. A great pity, because any Indian theory can be much more easily assimilated in Hindi than in English- irrespective of the provenance of the writer.
Thanks, Vivek. Interesting food for thought.
No comments yet, except that my knowledge of Indian classics is close to zero. I have been a far keener student of public administration and science (and later economics) than history or culture. Whatever little I’ve read (and liked) I have assimilated in simplistic terms (e.g. concepts like karma, karmayoga, advaita): some of these I’ve actually discussed in DOF, and shown how my conception of accountability is compatible with Indian tradition and allows the prospects of self-realisation, not merely happiness (note though that my views did not arise from the Indian tradition: they are more empirical, but the truth is always one, so it doesn’t matter who arrives at it in which way).
Would you read through DOF when you get spare time (it is a very bumpy read at the moment and I’m trying to revise when time permits: will take at least one year to fix it, given shortage of time)? I’m keen to leverage Indian thought in that book and would like to see where I can cite useful Indian references.
Regards
6Sanjeev
Dear sir,
Good morning,I D.Dantheshwar Rao, persuing my post graduation(MCA). i have seen your book(Breaking free of Nehru)
and i was surprised,because from my schooling onwards i aimed to get success in
IAS and through that i want to help the poor,tribal people,and bring the change in unbalanced polity all over India & i wanna
see our country as developed,corruption less, well political,the best country among
the world countries in very few years(in 1-2 decades), but only the problem is i want
support and path to achieve my aim, i have not seen you in your book as a govt.official,
but i seen you as my friend,who will pour the water on the plant which is called as "my
aim to see mine as proud country",sir if possible please give me your appointment to
meet you and speak some things regarding this,
Thanking you sir,……………………..
…..
yours
sincerely
D.Dantheshwar Rao
7muthangi(v/p),
patancheru(m),
medak(d),
andhra pradesh-502300.
mob:9030070577.
Respected sir,
8I am social worker from ludhiana ( punjab ) and I work to promote rationalist and scientific thinking among people. I really appreciate your work for society. I want to read your books in hindi because I feel comfortable while reading hindi. Please email me your writings or book in hindi so I can increase my knowledge about liberalism.
Nischal Hansi
mobile no. 8437568036
sir,
9kindly take it convenient to tlak to me.
j.p. goyal retd. A.P.O. D.R.D.A. JIND (Hry.) India
mob.+91 9416217676
Dear Nischal, Unfortunately BFN is not yet translated into Hindi.
Dear Goyal, are you the same Goyal I worked with as AC UT, Jind? I'm in Melbourne, but we can talk over email.
10